Stony Brook University's Director of Environmental Studies Tara Rider gives us hope in how we approach climate activism!
Tara Rider is the Faculty Director of Environmental Studies at Stony Brook University, NY. She has tremendous gifts in making connections between the past and present, highlighting the importance of understanding historical events and their impact on today’s society. She is both thought provoking and action oriented and is full of hope. My interview with her is truly getting some wheels churning about our environment and making change- what a constructive beautiful Friday afternoon!
Nedret
If I remember correctly it was March of 2023 when I heard your awe inspiring lectures on zoom. Southampton Historical Society had hosted your presentation Long Island’s Geological History. You gave this fantastic outline where I felt like I had been there watching all shifts and changes through the different periods of geological history. The dinosaurs, meteorite, the ice melt, seeing the oceans expand and retreat. So inspiring! I loved how you connected the geology of the past to what we see on the different shores of Long Island.
Tara
Yes, it was the one on the Natural History of Long Island, correct?
Nedret
Yes, yes, it was. I was just mesmerized by how interconnected everything is. We are walking on the same beaches that our native relatives did and how they sustained their lives. They fished, farmed, used the same trails. We are so busy with our 21st Century existences that we some times forget. I sometimes forget to slow down and just experience the grandeur of what we currently have. The beauty of the pebbles and sand grains that have been here for centuries before us.
This idea of how our geological history tells us so much of our past. Its fascinating how the past geological residues are engrained in the layers of rocks. How the past glaciers for example creates the ponds we see in Long Island today.
Geological History of Long Island-Ralph Lewis, Geologist (click for more info)
Tara
As the glaciers retreated, they left behind partially buried ice blocks that melt and leave depressions. They can fill with freshwater becoming “kettle lakes.” Examples here on Long Island include Lake Success and Lake Ronkonkoma.
Nedret
Could you tell me more on how you present this to your students at Stony Brook University?
Tara
Yes, it really depends on which class I’m teaching. What I want my students to understand is that the history is not simply the story of the past, but specifically the story of human’s past. The field of geology is also the story of the past, but it’s looking specifically at rocks. When we think about the past including those rocks, we need to consider how these environments shaped the people and societies. Both the past and nature continue to shape our lives today. I like my students to think about the fact that history is a laboratory and allows us to see what has happened and what the outcomes were. So that, hopefully, we can use that information when we’re making decisions today.
Nedret
So natural history is, basically, the geological history of our planet, East Coast, and more specifically, where you’re located to be kind of a lab here in Long Island?
Tara
History itself as a field includes humans. So thinking not only about how the Earth evolved, but ultimately, how humans have evolved because of those environments. Natural history allows us to observe how organisms like animals and plants interact with their environments. These interactions shape the environment that we humans live in and depend on.
Nedret
From your historical account, the earth was, and still is in constantly in flux. How do we take the information we have- that is enormous and make sense of it. And how do we get empowered to do something. We are faced with climate change, we experience more storms, actually witness sea level rising, and super hot temperatures. For many these are daunting experiences and have devastating results.
So how do you bridge the gap between history and what we are going through now? And then also empowering students to have tools and a mindset for positive action?
Tara
I mean, one of the things that’s important is for students to continue to have hope. Too often with contemporary environmental issues, there is a sense of despair or just pessimism. And the problem with pessimism is if you go whatever I do isn’t going to help anything, so why do anything? And one of the things that I always do appreciate about my students, and that I think this is common with younger people in general, is their idealism, which is important, but it needs to be tempered with a grounding in reality. Why haven’t we simply switched a button and gone from fossil fuels to renewables overnight? We need to recognize the complications that exist. But the fact is, we do need to have hope. We have created positive environmental change in the past and can do it again. can remember, as an undergrad, the big issue of the day, was the ozone hole, the hole in the ozone layer. Today the Ozone is no longer as significant of an issue as it once was. That’s not to say that there are not plenty of other issues. But the reality is, we’ve done some pretty good stuff in recent years. And, you know, thinking about how we talk about that is, I think, really important. We can look at blue whales. As the largest animal on earth, they were endangered. But thanks to wildlife protections, they are no longer on the endangered or threatened list, though still protected. So we have managed to create change on a large scale. We’ve managed to create changes at a global level. I tell students, we have to look at the past to find hope. Yes, we’ve made a lot of mistakes. We continue to make some of those mistakes, but we’ve also done good stuff. And we need to look at why we were we able to do those things? Why did those wildlife protections emerge? How did it come about? Why was it successful? And I always tell students, that historian’s favorite question is “why.” I always say we’re like that annoying four-year-old. Why? Why? Why? Why? why
Nedret
Why exactly, how did the ozone layer problem disappear, I do remember in the news in London the late 80’s it was huge.
It was on BBC1 all the time, what happened?
Tara
Policy changes – we got rid of the Chlorofluorocarbon. Aerosols were one of the biggest issues, and it’s not to say that there’s not problems still. But at a global level, countries like England, and the rest of Europe and the US, and even countries like Russia or China said, okay, we can make this switch. And it was not only countries but corporations that were willing to make changes. And, the global population said, we have to do something, and we did it. While perhaps changing the aerosol in someone’s hairspray wasn’t a huge thing, it actually had some pretty big consequences.
Nedret
Yes we all had big hair in the 80’s – luckily I have sensitive skin and couldn’t do spays..but still managed the big hair!
What other improvements have you witnessed?
Tara
The amount of oil spilled in our seas has fallen by 80% since 1980. It’s not to say we don’t still have oil spills. Obviously, we had the Horizon spill down in the Gulf of Mexico, but part of what has changed is that ship owners got together, and they agreed to use double hull tankers, and new technologies such GPS navigation got developed, and it made shipwrecks less likely. And so, the fact is, we have created positive change. And that’s where I tell students, you can look to the past and go, we’ve done it.
Can we continue it? Yes! Do we need to do more? Yes. But if we’ve done it once, you can do it again.
Nedret
I love it. I love it!!!! I’ve have those same kind of students come visit me on Sundays at my studio in Boston. And when I first started telling people about how much seagrass loss we have- almost one third of its gone. I personally was just processing information, trying to understand. I first started with seagrass restorations, I was trying to balance the numbers, and understand the implications of this foundation plant disappearing. I had not realized that I was sharing a tragic story. The students shoulders drooped and their faces were sad as they walked out of my studio. Then, I made two people cry with my facts and figures. That’s when I decided I would start looking for the good. Find marine biologists in the field, doing positive change, like Phil Colorusso, from the EPA helped bring back eelgrass to Boston Harbor with the big clean up. Or Bradly Peterson and the Shinnecock Bay restoration.
So, I am with you about being careful about which framework – or lens that we look through. I choose positive action towards change. Otherwise I think the burdens become too heavy. Like you said, it’s overwhelming, this overwhelm can create inertia & paralysis. And we don’t want that.
I have a lot of inquisitive visitors asking why I paint such colorful paintings of disappearing meadows. I tell them because the seagrass meadows are magnificent homes to thousands of animals, they have so much ecosystem benefits, and we still have two thirds left- so lets find ways to protect them!
Tara
Many students will come in and argue we need corporations more than individuals to make changes. And I’m the first to say we need to large scale change including corporate practices, as well governmental practices. But I also try to remind my students, that it can feel overwhelming when you’re trying to fight against the big corporations and government. But it’s also important to keep in mind that corporations and governments are ultimately made up of people. And so, it does take individuals making a choice to change and do it. One of the other things I always push my students to think about is the difference between talking and action. It’s very easy to talk, the challenge is to actually do it. And I always tell him to kind of take the Nike slogan to heart, “just do it!”
Nedret
I like it, I like that, get into action..wait how?
Tara
One of the things I’ve done in several of my classes is an assignment that I call the greening project. There’s a thought that you can create a habit, and – there’s variations of this idea – but that it takes at least four weeks of doing something to make it in an automatic practice – a habit. And so, I challenge my students to find something in their life, that they can green – meaning improve what they’re doing from an environmental view. And it doesn’t have to be huge. It can be something on the smaller side, I have students who do everything from some of them start to get politically involved by writing letters to government officials, businesses, or the community. They’ll make a commitment to write a letter a week. Others will change something more in their control such as thinking about water, how long of a shower did you take? And I will often hear 20- 30 minutes and even longer. We talked about how much water an average shower uses? And so, the challenge is, can you take a five minute shower, right?
Nedret
Bringing it down to practical everyday rituals we can adjust.
Tara
Yes, they know there’s issues with water scarcity. But it’s not necessarily an issue that they themselves are impacted by directly. Meaning that when they go to turn on the water here on Long Island, in all likelihood, not only are they going to have water coming out, it’s going to be clean water, drinkable water. It will be the temperature wanted. And so water scarcity is a problem you’re aware of but it’s not YOUR problem. And so you know I’m kind of pushing them to go further.
“You have talked about these issues, you’ve read articles on these issues. But why are you not doing something as simple as taking a shorter shower? “And so they’ll come up with projects that get them directly involved in change. We have a week-long celebration of Earth Day at Stony Brook, called Earthstock. Last year, my students took over the related Twitter account. They sent out challenges to their peers. One of the challenges they did for the week was five-minute showers. They created playlists to help people figure out like, how long is five minutes, because not everyone wants to set a timer. I thought my students got really creative. They came up with music as a way to figure out five minutes.
Nedret
That’s so cool!
Tara
All of their songs tended to have a water theme. And are you familiar with that? Love the 80s? So they added songs like Its raining men? They made short showers fun. And so I challenge the students to do something even if you can’t quite get your shower to only five minutes. But if you are taking the 20 minute shower, can you get it down to 10 minutes, right? Instead of jumping in the car from your dorm and getting to the classroom, can you either walk, bike, or take the bus. And the idea that if they do it for four weeks, it gets a lot easier to keep doing it for the rest of the semester. And then suddenly, they’re doing it in general. While long term change doesn’t always occur, the project has brought about a discussion – students are no longer just talking about these issues, they are about creating action.
Nedret
Right it really is about practicing better habits and before you know it becomes normal. For me using just recyclable bags was easy. Switching up coffee cups to my own flask took a little longer -almost two years (I am a bit slower than your students) But now I never leave the house without my stainless steal flasks. My next project is to get rid of plastic packaging – soaps/ shampoos can be ordered without plastics. I have to find more creative ways to use less plastics at home. How do you think these small decisions and changes we make at home impact the corporations?
Tara
In order to get a company to change, you have to think about what does it take? Companies need to make money. So you have to think about the audience? What is the consumer going to demand it. But also, what about the employees themselves? What about the CEO? If they don’t think about these changes, they’re probably not going to think about it in the context of their corporation. Getting them to change, is about creating a dynamic to create change, and to give them hope that change can happen. If you can do it, why can’t other people do it? And again, one of the things we do talk about in in the classes often are the challenges. You know, a lot of my students would love to eat organic, locally produced food that has minimal packaging, but if they live on campus, there’s challenges that they can’t fully control. But you think about oh, what can you control? And what is the outcome of these decisions. This goes back to ground practice in reality and why we don’t necessarily flip the switch overnight. But it doesn’t mean you can’t slowly get to the point where the switch will get flipped.
Nedret
Are you thinking switching the flip in terms of like becoming a vegetarian so it’s less CO2?
Tara
It’s talking about everything from what we eat to the type of energy we use. I’ve had students (and I love their passion who say, “Well, if we just switched from fossil fuels to renewable energy, we actually create more jobs.” But they’re not recognizing that is true only on a spreadsheet. Yes, there are more jobs created. But they’re not the people who are now working who are necessarily going to be working those new jobs; people are going to lose their livelihoods. And so going, okay, we do have to take into account people are going to push back when you’re talking about their ability to work, which is then their ability to feed themselves and their families. So yeah, we can’t just go from point A to point Z, there has to be a path. But can we start creating that path? How do we do it and again, showing that there is hope. And sometimes also as I said, grounded back into reality, the challenges that come out.
Nedret
Right? So how do you not become too idealistic and have sky high dreams where nothing’s attainable, and then nothing’s done.
Tara
But yeah, at the same time going, it can be done and maybe it takes that extra effort and those who can put that effort in in that moment needs choose to make that decision. Not everyone may be able to do that. But those who can, should.
Nedret
We also need buy in from the people at their current jobs, making the new jobs more appealing as an alternative- or substitute. So change becomes easier.
Tara
Yes, that’s, that’s one of the things we see happening. And one of our challenges is also simply scale. Like, where the people are located versus where the jobs are located, which is about shifting populations. We also have to recognize that populations are being forced to shift simply because of climatic change, such as rising sea levels. So, it’s important to get students to think about the challenges, but also getting them to recognize that you don’t have to solve the total challenge overnight. That there are ways that we can do this. Maybe by taking smaller bites, even though that’s not necessarily as fun or as ideal as it would be, maybe we need to take this little step in order to get to that next level. And it’s hard to balance passion with pragmaticism, because I don’t want my students to lose their passion. But also to help them to know, we can create change, it just may not be as nice and neat as we would like. Because they often lack experience or sometimes varying perspectives, it’s harder to see why we haven’t made changes. Studying history lets us see why we do what we do, but to also show we can change. History can give hope.
Nedret
Finding success stories is so important. Every time we have seagrass meetings, you know, I hear and see so many “ loss” maps and figures..its always good to see areas that the seagrass is stable and growing and think about why they are flourishing, it gives us more hope that we can recreate the same thing in other areas( all other factors and variables being equal)
Tara
Every time we get a little bit more knowledge on what’s going to be successful. It gets us closer to a path. And obviously, we’d all like to get to the end, we want the prize.
Nedret
I think there is a real need for better communication with stakeholders, local community and developing a sense of ownership in the restoration projects. We need more protectors of our seagrass and meadows.
We’ve experienced how just planting a new seagrass meadow doesn’t work by its self. We need publicity around a newly planted areas- both in local media and posters. So we don’t have local clammers destroying what we planted as they dig for their clams. It’s frustrating, to work so hard on gardening in the ocean, to have this happen.
Tara
The question is not only how to educate the stakeholders, but also recognize what the challenges are for them. Here in the east end of Long Island we’ve got people who’ve been dependent on shellfish for generations. But the population has declined, in order to maintain, you know, a basic economic survival. Due to environmental issues including pollutants and overfishing, the shellfishery industry has declined. But there is still a demand – both for the commodity, but also from those families that have depended on fishing economically. [TR1] They’re looking to take whatever they can. And one of the things I always challenge students to do is the idea about how you don’t inherit the earth from your ancestors, we’re borrowing it from our children. But it’s often very hard to think about the long term if you’re worried about short term survival. And while I can ask students how many of you can even imagine your kids, let alone your great grandkids? And the fact is, most of them can’t imagine their own children. And so it’s hard to make decisions with future generations in mind. If you’re worrying about today, how am I going to take care of myself, my family today, I can’t really be concerned what’s going to happen 10 years from now. And that’s the hard element to balance. And it’s recognizing that most likely there’s going to have to be multiple solutions. In regards to bringing back our eelgrass beds, you can’t just plant the grass and leave it at that. You have to think about, well, if fishers no longer have access to this area, what else are they able to access in order to be economically viable? And these are the challenges that make it complicated. I’ve worked with local fishers over the years, many of them were very clear, they did not want their children following in their footsteps. And out in the east end of Long Island, you have a lot of families in which they have been working our local waters since the 17th century. You know, shell fishing has definitely been part of East End culture. But both baymen and the fish disappearing as they struggle to survive. And some are encouraging their kids to do other things. But this is where we also have to recognize cultural and familial ties to land and to the waters and what might be lost in those senses. How can we help them today but also save this culture for the future? And again, there is I don’t think an easy answer in any way, shape, or form. But part of it is getting the conversations going, and that they have to be conversations, and not lectures, this is what you need to do. It’s very easy for someone else to tell you what you need to do. I’m sure we’ve all been told; we’ve all had one of those stupid things we’ve been doing in our lives. And the outsiders, our friends or family are looking at us going oh my god, could they be doing it? Yeah. But simply telling us to change doesn’t work.
Nedret
Nope, no one likes to be told what to do, that’s why we need community support, investment and people – clammers sharing the knowledge that if there is no seagrass, clams don’t have a home.
Tara
That’s one of the things that I’m really big on when I talk to students is that we do have to think about how we communicate. I think one of the biggest things that I want my students, who are often in the natural sciences, is to understand how to communicate science, to those who are not in our fields, and to communicate it in such a way that it’s not a lecture, that we have all the answers. And should do what we say, right? Because too often, I mean, it’s one of the things that I can appreciate as someone with an interdisciplinary background in both natural sciences, as well as the social sciences and humanities, is that science may say one thing, but it’s not taking into account the social needs, whether it’s cultural or economic, there has to be a dialogue.
IMPROV..
Nedret
Yes a dialogue. Well no clams if you have no seagrass, that’s like, you know, but you have to, it’s like, here’s the facts.
Tara
The problem is there are no clams tomorrow, but clams today mean I feed my family today.
Nedret
Right, but more about next year, nothing.
Tara
I can’t think about next year. If I can’t even survive today, I’m not going to be here next year. So why would I care? Right?
Nedret
It’s true, maybe scientists need to do improv. theater with the local fisherman and clammers where they change roles. It’s actually a great idea and would be fun!
Tara
What else can be done, how else can we reshape the conversation? What other options do they have? Some local families live in houses whose property value wise they would not necessarily be able to afford today, but as they were inherited, they can live and thus work in the East End. Often, they can’t afford to easily move somewhere else. And so the question becomes, what else can they do? What can we pull them into instead of helping to clam? How can we use their knowledge, and we have to recognize that they have a lot of local knowledge? And is there a way to make this into something that would be profitable enough for them to support their families, and the community can see the environmental benefits.
Nedret
I love the thinking, you need to come to our seagrass meetings. I love how you’re grounded in people and social change. And I think that’s really the key for moving forward.
Tara
It’s important, because for too long the lecture tone of “you must do this” puts everyone off. The challenge is figuring out a middle ground. Now the problem is too often we wait too long to have these conversations. I would argue, really, that in an ideal world – which we don’t live in – conversations should have started 20 or 30 years ago.
Nedret
These conversations where would you envision having them ? like in a pub or, or like get lunch?
Tara
I mean, I’m a big fan of food. I think food often helps to bring people together, that whole idea of bringing people to the table came from a very literal, historic place. The idea was that if you broke bread with someone, you were not enemies. Even if you didn’t like each other, it was still the idea that you could sit down and talk. Think of them like informational sessions. And I always think about how meetings are set up. Because too often, they’re set up with the experts on the platform, and then the public and the rest of the people down below, and you almost get that same idea of the king, right? And the process and thinking about that doesn’t really create a conversation; it creates your side and my side. And so you know, sometimes simply thinking about setting is a critical factor. So yes, we need to be concerned about the message. And part of the message is how you present it. And again, these are things that I talk to students about and obviously, not everyone responds the same way to any type of setting or all messages but thinking about what’s the best way to communicate is important. And I think science communication is something we need to keep working on and keep encouraging on larger and larger levels. It’s one of the things I like about Stony Brook. We have the Alan Alda Center for Science Communication. I challenged my students to communicate their specialty to a non specialty audience. To think – How do you get them excited about your topic?
Nedret
Yes, communication, excitement connecting are all about creating dialogue.
Tara
Yes, there are many ways to connect, and again, not everyone learns in the same way, like I am personally a very visual learner. I will pretty much in every class have PowerPoints, with mainly imagery, I very rarely have a lot of writing, in part because I want students to be present in the moment and the in discussion.
Nedret
Being present is important. How did you become involved with the Peconic Estuary Partnership?
Tara
I have been able to help in a small way by connecting them with some of my students. The Peconic Estuary Partnership is a really interesting group. They help to link groups together through funding and research. So one of the groups they work with is SeaGrant. SeaGrant has been working with many other groups on the idea of living shorelines or more accurately natural shorelines. Here in New York, this is a relatively new idea. We’ve seen natural shorelines in places like Maine and the Chesapeake going back to the 90s. But it’s a much newer phenomenon here on Long Island. And one of the things that they were interested in doing is figuring out how to basically smooth the way so that this would become a feasible option for the local communities.
Nedret
So that we are clear, living shorelines meaning we are adding plants, sand and rock to stabilize the coastal edge with natural materials. Rather than seawalls and hard structures which prevent the growth of plants and animals over time. A kind of like a natural infrastructure, right?
Tara
Right, are a hard barrier and have at times created additional flooding. And so a lot of towns are attempting to say no more bulkheads, but they haven’t necessarily created clear paths for other option. If you’re not doing a bulkhead, what are you going to do? And so one of the things that I am lucky enough to be able to do is teach a capstone class for our Sustainability Studies majors. And I’m a big believer in not just writing another report, but actually doing something which should make sense from our conversation so far.
Living Shorelines image above and link here at NOAA
Nedret
Exciting, what exactly did you have your students do?
Tara
I reached out and said, what could you use a group of about 20 students. We want to see what we can do to help. And so my students in the spring focused on the five towns around the Peconic, the five towns in the east end of Long Island. They went through their regulations and rules, both from the town and the trustees and said, “Okay, this is where you talk about bulkheads. But you don’t actually talk about natural shorelines. And so if someone wants to get a permit, if you don’t mention them, they don’t get permitted. The process wasn’t easy for the public. And so the students basically went through, I don’t even know how many rules and regulations they read through. I give them full credit, figuring out which ones were problematic, why they were problematic, and how to better write them. And then they also created what will eventually become the basis of a website for people living in each of those towns, if they’re interested in having a natural shoreline.
Nedret
Wow this is huge! Not only will be helping educate the public but also offer more sustainable options like Living Shorelines.
They are almost reducing the stress of research, permits and planning..basically removing barriers to even thinking about Living Shoreline. This is huge!!!
Tara
Yes, the website will link to the appropriate permit links and to the appropriate parties for the questions that the public will have to consider. We know what thescientists are saying about natural shorelines being better than bulkheads. And we can look at how influential natural shorelines are. But we also have to think about how do you educate the public? And how do we make this process easy. And some of it’s about just getting information to the public. But some of it was also about changing policy. And the students have gotten the chance to see what it takes to create change at a local level – in the place where they live. A lot of these laws were written 50+ years ago, when there was no such thing as a natural shoreline, which means when they try to get a permit, things don’t quite mesh, if that makes sense. Some of the students actually continued to work on the project over the summer. And then with that, they actually got the chance to work with SeaGrant and meet with policymakers and help to educate the policymakers who can then change the policy. Sometimes change is as simple as adding the word natural shorelines. My goal is to get students involved in this project, and part of it is to see that they can create change.
Nedret
I love it! We’re going to take the headache away from permits and policy if someone’s really interested in Living Shorelines. it’s one step closer to finding solutions to get to that project. This is amazing!
Tara
That’s the idea, sometimes a lot of great organizations just need manpower. Right? Yeah. And you know, that’s something that I can go, Hey, I’ve got, in that case, 20 students, and we’ve got 15 weeks, we can throw a bunch of hours, I mean, going through those laws, I am amazed and proud at how well my students did.
Nedret
Which towns would they be helping with their Living Shorelines platform?
Tara
The Five towns are Southampton, town of East Hampton, the town of Southhold, the town of Riverhead and the town of Shelter Island. So they’re all the towns around the Peconic Bay
Nedret
Will all of these towns be provided with a template with your student’s website site on how to get started navigating the Living Shorelines route for their properties?
Tara
Potentially, I don’t quite know, you know, none of this necessarily happens overnight. And it was one of the things I thought was also important for students to see was the process that you can’t just, it doesn’t take an hour or two, this is going to take months, and potentially even years. It could even be a multi-year project, there are so many challenges like getting permits for construction projects, you know, all of the various permitting, you’ve got to get the village permit. If you live in the village, you’ve got to get the town permit, you’ve got to be aware of the county, you’ve got to be aware of New York State permits.
Nedret
Roadblocks, challenges and NY permits! It all seems like its apart of the terrain to make change happen. Look at how long it took to get the seagrass back in Boston Harbor, it wouldn’t of happened without community coming together and dealing with all the challenges. Or the success story of Long Islands Sound’s eelgrass coming back in Mumford Cove- it took years to rectify but worked. The municipal wastewater treatment plant was discharging nitrogen into the embayment which caused massive macroalgae blooms between 1945-87. This resulted in a lot of seagrass loss (not enough light/clean water). In 2000 they implemented new policy that removed wastewater discharge from Long Island Sound with new regulation which all resulted in clean water and the expansion of seagrass in Mumford Cove over 15 years.
So yes its possible!
Why it’s important for all of these students looking at living shorelines or natural shorelines? Why is it important and top of mind in Long Island today?
Tara
Well, it has to do with basically protecting our communities. The fact is, we have to deal with issues of flooding and erosion. So living or natural shorelines help to abate some of those issues. It also creates nursery grounds for a lot of different species, and let me be very clear, I’m not an expert in all of this, I’ve got kind of a generalist knowledge of all of it. But you know, depending on the shorelines, you can create different types of natural shorelines that are appropriate for the specific area. As the homeowner, you are thinking about protecting your property. Quite often natural shorelines are cheaper than putting in bulkheads. So if you’re thinking simply from economics, you get the same benefit for less money. But not only can you protect your property, but you might also create a nursery ground for new species or an ecosystem species to continue to exist We can see how these systems are interconnected in which positive environmental change can be economically beneficial on multiple levels.
Nedret
So lets say I lived in South Hampton and I had one of those beautiful homes right on the ocean, then I can go look at your student’s website. Can I get the information and actually start thinking about applying living shorelines to my own property?
Tara
Yes, the goal will be for private households to get help and apply for permits for natural shorelines. But we’re seeing towns getting involved too. Probably right now one of our best examples of a natural shoreline is the Village of Patchogue. They’reremoving their bulkheads down by the Bay in a natural shoreline. You know, one of the benefits to a town project is it’s one that will be seen by a large number of people. So, it’s not just individuals, it’s also communities as a whole being able to do things like this. But again, it’s what we can do for both the present but also the future.
Nedret
Are there other examples in Long Island that could go research aside from Village of Patchogue
Tara
I don’t think there’s really much out there online because they’re just getting started on it. I would say Patchogue is probably going to be the best one. How are you finding see elements of this with like Jamaica Bay as well though.
Nedret
How is Long Island working on dealing with storm surges?
Tara
It’s a matter of sea level, but also systems like aquifers. When Sandy hit, some houses flooded not because of water directly from the bays and ocean, but rather though an indirect system in which the bays flooded the aquifers and those levels rose, flooding areas.
Nedret
This is probably what happened to Vermont, the aquifer couldn’t handle excessive rain. WE really are being shaped by our environment.
Tara
In Long Island, we have barrier islands like Fire Island and places like Dune Road in Southampton. But we also have to remember Long Island itself is a barrier island. I always kind of say, imagine us as being a big lump of clay that’s getting shaped and reshaped constantly. While those outer barrier islands on the south shore are taking that initial impact and are eroding, we’re seeing changes happening to them. I think I’d mentioned in the talk that they’re actually closer than they used to be, at one point, 1000s of years ago, our island was like 80 miles south of where Long Island is today. And obviously, it’s nowhere near 80 miles south of us. So, they are getting hit with the most intensity. But, again, Long Island is still acting as a barrier to, you know, the rest of what I’ll call continental US.
Nedret
So Long Island itself is acting as a barrier to like Connecticut and the mainland?
Tara
Yes, and this is the challenge. We are a bundle of clay that has been reshaped and shaped. It’s the reason why the east end of Long Island doesn’t have any of those protective islands. You know, Montauk is being hit at full force. It is why the Montauk lighthouse is a really good visual example. You know, the lighthouse was once 300 feet back from the end of the island. And now if you go today, it’s right on the edge of our island.
Nedret
I think we’re gonna need hovercrafts like housing, housing that can float like in Europe. Joking aside, I really appreciate you taking time to visit with me and chat about these amazing projects you are putting out into the world. Thank you for caring so much and inspiring all of us to think a little deeper, and know that we can make change happen for the better!
Congratulations Tara for winning the Chancellor’s Teaching Excellence Award of 2023!!!!
Before I forget, I will be having guest speaker Tara Rider at my next solo exhibit Sara Nightingale Gallery in Sag Harbor in April!
Click below for more info on:
Village of Patchguae NY, Living Shorelines
Geological History of Long Island-Ralph Lewis, Geologist (click for more info)